New to horse racing, I have some newbie questions...

kevdood83

Hello,

Over the last couple of weekends I have been trying my hand at horse race betting (at simulcast locations). I have been betting regular horse racing only (no dogs or harness racing). However I think I'm making some big mistakes so I figured I would post some questions here.

I'll briefly describe what I have been doing.

I have a $250 "bankroll" I have set aside. Currently I have this worked up to $285, but I was down $190 for a while. I've only made 3 trips to the casino over the last two weekends, but I'm glad I got my bankroll in positive territory.

I generally have been making $1 Exacta bets (usually 2 horse exacta boxes totaling $2) or straight win bets for $2. In addition to that I have occasionally been doing pick 3's where I bet $0.50 and chose 1 horse, 3 horses, and 4 horses in races 1, 2, and 3 respectively. (yesterday I hit $80 on a pick 3 this way that originally cost $6! This is my biggest score so far as a beginner) sometimes if I get to the last leg of my pick 3 and I and am concerned a horse will threaten my pick 3 I'll "hedge" that last horse by betting $2$-$4 on it to win.

So that's basically the 3 methods I have been employing when betting. I read doing exacta boxes with 3 or more horses is foolish, and that place/show bets were foolish, so I stopped doing that.

I have also occasionally bet a horse by putting down $2 win, $4 place, and $12 show ($18 total) on one horse if the odds are better than 2-1 on a field of about 7 or less horses where I feel really good about my horse. This is a tough combination to find though.

So the majority of my bets are $2 to $6 depending on bet type, and occasionally $10-$18 on WPS type bets.

I have been using Brisnet Ultimate PP's w/ comments I found for free by clicking through trainer reports. I didn't realize so many trainers put up free Brisnet PP's if they have a horse in a race, so far I'm usually able to get practically every Aqueduct, Gulfstream, Tampa, and Santa Anita and others for free on weekends. Yesterday I had found every Gulfstream Brisnet PP except for race 2. For free!

So here are my questions:
-Are any of my betting methods foolish?
-Could someone point me to a good beginners guide?
-Is my bankroll to small?

Also I have a couple questions about betting online:
-Would it be better to sign up for an online site instead of driving to simulcast places?
-Is it cheaper to bet online? Like does a simulcast place take a bigger or smaller cut than websites?
-I looked at possibly TwinSpires.com or BetAmerica.com, are these safe?
-If any of you use these websites, will my Visa work to deposit?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

-Kev from Rhode Island.

DiscreetCat

Hello and welcome.

I don't like critiquing other people's betting methods because (a) it's their money, and (b) different people have different strategies and/or comfort levels.

I would agree that show betting is foolish; place betting you can make an argument for. I generally just bet to win myself.

I would say that exactas are fine, however, i only utilize them when i feel there's a need (having an genuine opinion that a pair of horses might run 1-2). That's pretty rare, at least for me. Hard enough to finde one horse you have an opinion on.

A good beginner's guide? Right here! We have some of the sharpest horse bettors on the internet right here @ HRT.

As for your bankroll, i'd say it's fine for a beginner.

Online wagering i know nothing about. But i would say that if you DO use it, then i would absolutely stick with a legitimate, above-board company like Twin Spires. That one is safe for sure.

kcburg

I will vouch for Twinspires..I have made both deposits and withdrawals with zero issue. The easiest is do an ach to your checking they have a few other methods but hoops are needed to jump through. They do have some decent bonuses.

dirtyshirt

You are doing better than anybody here. Keep up the good work. Fuck all that place/show shit.

rayphil

Welcome Kev. I think your bankroll is perfect for being new to the game. Just remember this game will wipe the floor with your ass on somedays. Just stay positive and keep to what you know. Multi race wagers are where a lot of big scores are going to happen. I slide to bet to win and maybe place in certain spots. Show wagering is good if your loaded and uneducated. Online wagering is what I do 99 percent of the time and I go through TVG. My advice for you is to wait to derby gets closer and they offer larger bonuses.

shh10

Welcome to HRT - good questions to start off with here and I recognize all of them, having had them run through my head at one point.

My 2 cents on online betting:

I like online wagering. I started out with Bookmaker for my sports betting (NFL/NCAA), but when I became more involved with this game I had to move to another online site due to the limited wagering options on that site (mostly WPS). TwinSpires and TVG are probably the two most popular around here. Using a credit card is a hassle with both sites. I've had my transaction declined by VISA on a few occasions when I initially signed up - they considered it a "suspicious" transaction and the ones that do go through charged me a "cash advance" fee. Either of those two sites are trustworthy and I'm set up via a bank draft now for ease of deposits (haven't got to the withdrawal part yet)

Also, I think online betting is probably cheaper than driving to the simulcast site. Several $7 beers and a few whiskey's can eat away at your bankroll. Personally, I like the added benefit of wagering and streaming the races on my handheld/computer where ever I'm at.

Lastly, I don't mean to jump on your thread, but I have other questions for the HRT Forum that you might find yourself asking later so, if you don't mind me asking them.

HRT:
1) At what point/time do you make your wagers? Do you wait to see where the odds are headed? And . . .
2) At what odds will you just not wager?
3) What's the purpose of the "repeat bet" feature online and when do you use it? If I bet $20 to win and then repeat the bet why not just bet $40 to win in the first place?

Welcome again to the forum . . .

John Greenhaw

That repeat wager function on TVG and others is set up for wagers where you expect to hit a IRS ticket and if you play a small denomination wager the taxes will be less, I think? At least that is what I've been told before by mutual clerks.

I've been with Twinspires for many years, way back when they were Brisbet. For the last few years, when it became available in my state, I have also used TVG, because I figured it was the least I could do to support a company that supported racing. Both companies offer decent rebates and have good customer relations if you need it. Also, both companies have a feature where you can get their picks for the race, and although I don't rely on this info, I always take a look to see if I might be missing something?

The choice of wagers you make is a personal thing. However, I would tend to disagree with the advice you got about playing more than two horses in an exacta. I play most races where there is a decent field size, and I play a lot of 3 horse exacta boxes. My thought is if you get lucky and hit one with a price shot in the money you will be ahead of the curve for a long time. Now, I'm talking 8 plus field size, so mid-winter at Aqueduct it is probably not a option for going deep due to the low payoffs. Best advise

---

KEEP YOUR CHIN UP!!!!! (it's a tough game some days)

John Greenhaw

I should have said about the taxes, that if you have a smaller wager, where the payoff is less than five large, then there is no fed withholding, but the taxable amount of a IRS ticket should be the same, but obviously I am not certain on this either?

Makers

John Greenhaw wrote: »

I should have said about the taxes, that if you have a smaller wager, where the payoff is less than five large, then there is no fed withholding, but the taxable amount of a IRS ticket should be the same, but obviously I am not certain on this either?

Twinspires will send W-2G's which you can also view on their web site

Makers

This is the section from the IRS website that deals with withholding on wagers: http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw2g/ar0...

From the website:

1. Horse Racing, Dog Racing, Jai Alai, and Other Wagering Transactions Not Discussed Later
File Form W-2G for every person to whom you pay $600 or more in gambling winnings if the winnings are at least 300 times the amount of the wager. If the person presenting the ticket for payment is the sole owner of the ticket, complete Form W-2G showing the name, address, and TIN of the winner. If regular gambling withholding is required, the winner must sign Form W-2G, under penalties of perjury, stating that he or she is the sole owner and that the information listed on the form is correct.

Withholding
You must withhold federal income tax, at the rate of 25% (regular gambling withholding), from the amount of winnings less the amount wagered. Do this if the winnings less the wager exceed $5,000 and if the winnings are at least 300 times the amount of the wager.

If the winner of reportable gambling winnings does not provide a TIN, you must backup withhold at the rate of 28% on any such winnings that are not subject to 25% regular gambling withholding. That is, backup withholding applies if the winnings are at least $600 but not more than $5,000 and are at least 300 times the wager. Figure the 28% backup withholding on the amount of the winnings reduced, at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.

Multiple Wagers
For multiple wagers sold on one ticket, such as the $12 box bet on a Big Triple or Trifecta, the wager is considered as six $2 bets and not one $12 bet for purposes of computing the amount to be reported or withheld. Winnings on a $12 box bet must be reported if they are $600 or more, and federal income tax must be withheld if the proceeds total more than $5,000 or, if the proceeds do not exceed $5,000, if the recipient fails to provide a TIN.

Identical Wagers
Winnings from identical wagers (for example, two $2 bets on a particular horse to win the same race) are added together for purposes of the reporting and withholding requirements. Also, winnings from identical wagers that are not part of the payment for which the Form W-2G is being prepared are added together for purposes of withholding to determine if the total amount of proceeds from identical wagers is more than $5,000.

Makers

While I didn't cash a $5k ticket at Twinspires...On a $4kticket they did not withhold..just sent a W-2G

Makers

-Could someone point me to a good beginners guide?

I would add an understanding of conditions should be a priority..Take the time when reviewing the DRF..check how many claimers (esp lower level) repeat. Yes it does happen but conditions (check and balancing) makes this option one worthy of extra scrutiny before punching enter.

risky101

If you like playing win bets then i would suggest playing the pick 4 on sat sunday at santa anita , its .50 minimum with 500k guaranteed. I personally get bored with wps bets i only play exotics and multi race wagers( call me stupid but i enjoy it) to me racing is a hobby and dont like to think of it as income to be made , therefore i want bigger scores even though its less consistent...my favorite plays are tris and superfectas.


As for the online thing , i think its way better than driving to a casino and wasting gas. I play mostly on drf bets ( had good matching bonuses) and i enjoy the ticketmakers... i also use tvg and in tvg i can watch all races live for free.. drf bets gives u bonus points also where u can earn free bets and u can get free pps if u wager 2$ on the card u bought or something like that...

Hope u get the info u need ( i too am a rookie) been following since 2014 but have been going to the santa anita race track since 1999 with my mom...

risky101

P.s my biggest score was on a race that was super easy to handicapp ( 2014 preakness) won nearly 1300$ on a 12$ bet....just a thought...